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Caloroga Shark Media. Hi there, Johnny meg And for today’s Daily Comedy News, We’re going to take a look at the Mount Rushmore of Late Night. I’ve been thinking about this one a lot, so I will share with you the history of Late Night off the top of my head, then a look at why the actual presidents are on the actual Mount Rushmore. And I even used AI to help me focus my thoughts here and it was really really helpful, So I will share all that. Let’s do the history of Late Night off the top of my head, no notes.
So they were cavemen. They had no late night shows until Steve Allen came along and hosted the first four or five years of the Tonight Show. We’ll talk about Steven a bit. He did a lot of things that you saw throughout the ages, including a lot of influence on Letterman. So then he gets too busy to keep the show and passes it off to Jack Parr, who does a quote unquote smarter version of the show and introduces a lot of things that became late night staples.
Next up, Johnny Carson, and I think for purposes of this episode, if you listen to this podcast, I don’t have to explain Johnny to anybody. So let’s just accept right now, Johnny Carson’s on them Mount Rushmore, right, we know that’s going to happen. Johnny hangs around for thirty years. At some point they expand to twelve thirty and Tom Snyder hosts a show. Tom Snyder gives way to David Letterman’s twelve thirty show.
Letterman hopes that he’ll get the Tonight’s Show, but nope, they give it to permanent guest host Jay Leno, who hosts the Tonight Show for a while. Letterman goes to CBS, and for the first time, we really have two competitive late night shows. I know there was Dick Cavin and Joey Bishop and some other things we’ll talk about our senio, but it’s really the first time that the Tonight Show isn’t just the only game in town. Letterman rides out his time on CBS. Jay Leno passes the Tonight Show off to Conan O’Brien for five minutes.
Jay takes it back, and eventually we wind up in the air of fallon Colbert and Jimmy Kimmel. And that’s the brief history of late Night. Okay, Hey, we’ll use that as a focal lens as for the actual Mount Rushmore, because if we’re doing the Mount Rushmore of Late Night, I thought that would be an interesting lens in which to look at this. George Washington represents the birth and founding of the nation as the first president. Think about that.
Thomas Jefferson symbolizes expansion, particularly the Louisiana purchase and his role in writing the Declaration of Independence. Abraham Lincoln represents the preservation of the Union, and Theodore Roosevelt embodies the nation’s development. Is known for his conservation efforts the Panama Canal and his role in the industrial boom, and a bit of a maverick. And I think we can find some inspiration there, all right. Who has hosted the most years in Late Night?
David Letterman at thirty three years, Wow, Johnny Carson did thirty Conan twenty eight, Bill Maher, who hasn’t come up in these discussions at all, twenty two years in Late Night. So I think that’s the equivalent of a guy in baseball who’s just accumulating stats and nobody ever went there’s the best player in the game, and sometimes those guys make the Hall of Fame. Bill’s not getting a spot on Mount Rushmore. Jay Leno also twenty two years in Late Night. Jimmy Kimmel already at twenty years, How is that possible?
So? Is Kimmel gonna pass Leno and again quietly accumulating stats might make some sort of Late Night Hall of Fame because of it? But is there a legacy of Jimmy Kimmel? I don’t think so. Stephen Colbert in his two forms at nineteen, John Stewart at seventeen in counting, Jimmy Fallon sixteen in counting, Andy Cohen, who hasn’t come up at all in these discussions sixteen years in counting.
So we talk about legacy and longevity. On the legacy front, Arsenio Hall absolutely has a legacy. He does not have longevity. The Arsenio Show ran from January third, nineteen eighty nine, until May twenty seventh, nineteen ninety four. Not very long, right, five years.
There was a reboot in twenty thirteen. Do you remember that? I don’t either. The reboot ran from September ninth, twenty thirteen to May twenty first, twenty fourteen. It’s one season.
Also Arsenio had taken over for Joan Rivers on The Late Show in nineteen eighty seven when Joan was fired. He hosted it for thirteen weeks and was unexpectedly popular. So that’s legacy. He definitely has a legacy. We’ll talk more about him.
Longevity is Jay Leno, but I’m not sure Jay has legacy. Some folks worth mentioning that aren’t really part of this conversation. Dickkevit, Joey Bishop, Pat Sayjack Magic, Johnson, Chevy Chase, Jerry Lewis had a show for a week, like literally one week. Jon Stewart had a show. Did David Bernner have a show on ABC for a while, I think he did.
Joan Rivers comes up a lot. She hosted from October ninth, nineteen eighty six to May fifteenth, nineteen eighty seven. That is not a long time to put somebody on Mount Rushmore. We can put Joan in the Late night Hall of Fame for sure, but not on Mount Rushmore.
All right, Let’s look at the case for some of these folks.
Steve Allen widely credited with popularizing the man on the Street interview segment, a staple of late night TV. He often featured recurring characters comedic sketches, sometimes involving audience participation. He was known for his quick wit and improv skills. Steve Allen hosted The Tonight Show from nineteen fifty four to nineteen fifty seven. He blended stand up comedy, interviews, musical performances, and quirky segments, known for making prank phone calls on the show.
If I had to compare him to Mount Rushmore, he’s the George Washington, representing the birth and the founding of the nation as the first president. Strong case for Steve Allen, he passes off to Jack Parr. Jack hosted Tonight from July twenty ninth, nineteen fifty seven to March thirtieth, nineteen sixty two. Let me read to you from his oh bit in The New York Times in two thousand and four. Jack Parr, the prickly, often emotional and always unpredictable humorist who turned late night TV into a national institution when he was the host of The Tonight Show, passed away at a eighty five.
John O’Connor wrote in The Times in nineteen ninety seven. Before Jack Parr, there were various variety shows. Doing the midnight watch, he simplified the format into a talk show, complete with the sofa and desk set that remains a fixture of his secret interesting guests, far more so than the celebrity hordes working on product plugs today, and an uncanny ability to listen carefully and actually engage in clever and often witty conversation William Grimes observed in the Times. Long before David Letterman, mister Parr had an anarchic streak that inspired him to pair guests like Liberaci and Cassius Clay, or Jane Mansfield and Joshauh Gabor to get in the ring with a professional wrestler, or to shuffle the que cards in the middle of a Robert Gulay Judy Gorylan duet that almost sounds like Malaniy’s show. When network sensors excised at joke about a water closet for young ings that’s a code for toilet.
From the show’s broadcast in February nineteen sixty, Parr walked off the show the next night in protest, leaving announcer Hugh Downs to finish the show. Parr didn’t return until three weeks later on March seventh, He strolled on a stage, struck a pose and said, as I was saying, so, I asked the AI, what’s the case for Jack Parr? Y A, I wrote, Steve Allen created the format. Jack Parr gave it a soul. Right, that’s pretty good.
AI. Before Parr Late Night was mostly stunts, bits and variety acts. Part turned the Tonight show in a place for smart, engaging and awful emotional conversations. He brought humanity to a format that could have easily stayed shallow and silly. He made the interview the heart of the show, not just as a publicity stop, but as a space for real talk.
He can draw a straight line from Parr to Dick Cavett, to Letterman to John Stewart. If Allan is the architect, Parr is the guy who walked into the house and made it feel alive. Strong case for Jack Parr. There next up Johnny Carson. Again, if you’re listening to this show, I don’t explain Johnny Carson to you.
He’s on. I forgot to ask it to make a case for Tom Snyder. Let me do that. I’m tipping my hand there that Tom Snyder didn’t make it. But the AI writes, before let him in, before Conan, before Stewart, there was Snyder.
The Tomorrow Show debuted in seventy three, airing after Carson. Snyder eventually invented the post midnight talk show format. He was on the stand up. He wasn’t goofy. He was just Tom intense, curious, and weirdly mesmerizing.
David Letterman idolized Tom Snyder. When Letterman moved to CBS in ninety three, he handpicked Snyder to host the Late Late Show. I forgot that even happened. Yeah, because he wanted someone who wasn’t doing a comedy show, just compelling conversation. That’s legacy power.
Onto David Letterman, the AI writes, If there’s not a place for him on the mountain, then blow the whole thing up and start over. Dave rebuilt Late Night as something weirder, sharper, and more ironic. When Late Night with David Letterman premiere in eighty two. He didn’t try to out Carson Carson. He created a punk rock version of the talk show, remote segments in diners, elevator races, stupid petricks, and top ten lists that made no sense.
He mocked the genre as he mastered it without Dave. There’s no Conan, no Kimmel, no Colbert, no Felon, no Seth, just a bunch of guys trying to be mini Carson’s all right, let me flip over another card. Carson Letterman, Letterman is on the Mount Rushmore. Is there a case for Jay Leno? I went back and forth with this.
The AI says, Yeah, there’s a case for Jay Leno on the late night Mount Rushmore. But it’s not the case you’d make for Letterman, Conan or Carson. Leno doesn’t make them out on cool points or creative innovation. He makes it on a different kind of strength dominance. Leno may not have been the critics darling, but the guy crushed the ratings.
For the better part of two decades, The Tonight Show with Jay Leno was the most watched late night show in America. He beat Letterman, He beat everyone. If late night was a sport, Jay was the guy stacking up wins while the others are getting profile pieces in The New Yorker. Viewers liked him, Middle America liked him. NBC liked his ad revenue.
That kind of commercial dominance counts in any Hall of fame. The guy wrote his own jokes, stayed up reading the wires, and was known for outworking everybody he spoke to a different America. Letterman was New York cool, Conan was Harvard weird. Stuart and Colbert were political. But Jay talked to your uncle who watches Wheel of Fortune thinks oj jokes are still hilarious.
That matters. He connected with a vast part of the country that didn’t want edge or irony. Just a guy in Denham telling safe jokes about politicians and celebrities. It kept the Tonight Show accessible and mainstream at a time when the rest of Late Night was getting sharper, snarky, ear and narrower. Even Letterman called him the best stand up in the country back in the day.
Strong case for Jay Leno, I mean he did beat David Letterman. He kept the Tonight Show going for two more decades. Should we put him up on the mountain? Nah? Yeah, let’s circle back.
Let’s see Carson Letterman two more. The case for John Stewart. He turned Late Night into a weapon. Before John Stewart took over the Daily Show in ninety nine, Late Night was mostly entertainment, monologues, movie plugs, the occasional political jab Stuart flipped that he made comedy delivery system for truth. Satshire became sharp punch lines carried purpose.
If you like Last Week Tonight, Thanks Stuart, Colbert report full frontal at Stan b Hasan Minhaj’s Patriot Act, even the later years of Weekend Update, that’s Stuart’s legacy. Yes, he was funny, but when it came time to drop the joke, Stuart could cut through the noise like nobody else alive. His monologue after nine to eleven, his brutal eviseration of cross Fire, his takedown of Congress over the nine to eleven First Responders, Bill Stewart captured the politically aware millennial who distrusted mainstream media but still want to know what the hell was going on. He didn’t try to reach everyone. He asked his audience clearly and honestly, and they trusted him more than the news anchors.
Multiple studies found Stewart was one of the most trusted news sources for young Americans in the two thousands. Clearly a case for the Late Night Hall of Fame, which is a different discussion. I think everybody I’m mentioning on the show is in the Late night Hall of Fame. But mount Roushmore, Carson, Letterman, you get two more. I’m not putting John up.
The case for Arsenio Hall again, legacy with a capital L longevity. No, he had the it factor, the barking crowd, the fingerspin entrance, the appointed questions delivered with charm. Arcinio had a charisma that connected. He wasn’t trying to be Carson, he was being himself, and America shot up for it. In his prime, he beat Johnny Carson in the ratings with younger viewers that was unthinkable.
He made being on his couch just as valuable as Carson’s. He changed politics on Late Night, before the Daily Show, before Colbert, before Fellon and slow jam the news. There was our Senio playing the sacks with Bill Clinton wasn’t a gimmick. That moment is widely credited with helping Clinton win over younger viewers and reshaping how politicians approached pop culture. He made it cool to mix politics and entertainment.
He built a lane that didn’t exist before and made sure others could follow. Hall of Fame. Yes, Mountain top I can’t. I’ve only got two spots left, Carson Letterman and two more.
Let’s talk about Conan O’Brien.
I started thinking about Conan, and I’m like, are we just gon a love fest with Conan right now? Are we possibly overrating Conan right now just because we’re into what he’s been up to when we root for him and the whole thing, and he was the fifty million dollar underdog, right and so everybody likes the guy. A Devil’s argument is he Van Hagar. We liked the Iconoclass Show, and he followed and did his own version and it was differently great. My case against Conan is when he put Conan up against Letterman, that’s putting Sammy are up against David the Roth and Dave One.
I’ll counter argument that, as I’ve talked about on this show many times, hosting the Tonight Show is a certain skill. Jay Leno hosted The Tonight Show. The Jay Leno of Tonight was different than the edgyj that used to guest on Late Night with David Letterman Jimmy Fallon. You’ve heard me talk about him. I think he’s much more talented than the role he plays as host of the Tonight Show, Conan, same kind of box.
Conan inherited the Letterman slot with almost no on camera experience. Early reviews were brutal, but instead of chasing traditional expectations, Conan doubled down on the weird dancing Bears masturbating Bear in the year two thousand triumph. It wasn’t Johnny Carson’s Late Night. He helped make absurdity and self deprecation the default tone for a generation of comedy writers. Okay, let’s get some commercials in.
We’ve got Carson and Letterman and two more. Take the break, we’ll come back and I’ll tell you what I think. Oh boy, this is fun, all right, Carson Letterman spot number three, and I have changed my opinion about this, But as the more I thought about it, I gotta give it to Steve Allen, because George Washington represents the birth and the founding of the nation as the first president. Without Steve Allen, there’s no late night period. He created the Tonight Show in nineteen fifty four.
He built the blueprint. Everybody else follows. Monologue bits, desk segments, sketches, musical guests, interviews from Carson to Conan. It’s remixing Steve Allen’s formula. Steve Allen makes the Late Night mount rushmore all right, Steve Allen, Johnny Carson, David Letterman, Who am I giving the fourth spot to Conan O’Brien and I wish I were this good?
This is the AI wrote this. In twenty ten, NBC handed the Tonight Show to Conin, only to Yan get back for Jay Leno. Within the year. Rather than meltdown, Conan delivered some of the most savagely funny, cathartic, and bitter yet classic comedy and TV history. His final episodes were a mic drop moment and his farewell speech, which was if you work with hard in your kind, amazing things will happen.
Turned him into a folk hero. He went from Late Night to The Tonight Show, to Conan on TBS, to Conan O’Brien needs a Friend, and somehow kept evolving. He took a show on the road, did specials in Armenia and Cuba. He made podcast Theys feel like a legitimate format for a former network host. Few late night stars have redefined themselves as many times as Conan without becoming irrelevant.
I have a big smile on my face as I read that Conan O’Brien makes the late night mount Rushmore alongside Steve Allen, Johnny Carson, and David Letterman. Those are four. If I had a fifth, I would give it to Jay Leno. But again there’s no legacy, and any legacy is tied back to the Conan fiasco. A good caretaker, but didn’t advance the format, which is no sin and it is exactly what the gig is.
Jay hosted the Tonight show and kept the ship steady. But does that get you on the mountain? It does not. And that’s today’s episode of Daily Comedy News. See you tomorrow.